Tuesday, October 30, 2007

Voter fraud in Seattle - From the Seattle Times "Three plead guilty in fake voter scheme": "The defendants were all temporary employees of ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, when they allegedly filled out and submitted more than 1,800 fictitious voter-registration cards during a 2006 registration drive in King and Pierce counties."

Extra - Liberty Pundit asks: "Who tries to steal elections again?" Maybe a better question is what's the ratio of Left Wingers convicted for election-day crimes vs. Right Wingers?


Pam Handle said...

No votes were cast in the names of the phony voters.

Prosecutors said the defendants committed fraud in order to keep their jobs without actually registering voters.

No electoral result whatsoever. Penny-ante participants meeting a quota. But why bother reading the article? It just confuses the meme.

Staggering "gotcha" there. This scheme is just as bad - or worse - than physically DESTROYING legitimate voter applications in multiple states, or locking down precinct buildings during recounts to block observers, or making harassing nuisance calls in the name of opponents, or entire county votes being voided by a judge because of Diebold malfunctioning, or illegally wiping voter eligibility rolls, or........

Ahhhhh, skip it. Much more grown-up to focus on three slackers ripping off their bosses with bogus makework. Because that's the real crisis facing our nation - and it's exclusively the way those dirty, dirty Dems roll.

Anonymous said...

Eric, I knew this would be chum for your dopey delusional "regular" troll.

Hey, nobody actually voted. No harm, no foul!

P.S., "regular" troll - your next comment on this thread would ideally be DON'T TASE ME, BRO. Thanks in advance.

Pam Handle said...

Hey, nobody actually voted. No harm, no foul!

I hate to break it to you this way, but... er, YES.
1. Hey, nobody actually voted; 2. hey, nobody was ever GOING to vote; and 3. hey, NOBODY WAS ACTUALLY EVER REGISTERED.

Yes, this is anathema for those of you still recovering from the trauma of the similarly destructive pizza terror almost-attack on Fort Dix. And sure, it spoils your whole "THEM-- they're the REAL bad ones!" self-defense mechanism.

But it's true: attempted apolitical voter fraud <<< literal party-directed voting fraud. It's like the distinction between being paid to hang up campaign posters but chucking them in the trash, and ripping down your opponents' campaign posters to throw them away.

Don't worry, though, you don't ever have to acknowledge the proportional difference - calling somebody a "troll" online immediately means you win everything, to infinity, plus one. Congratulations! You're not dopey, delusional, or biased... you're a fightin' sentinel for liberty!

Anonymous said...

Obviously this is bad behavior. Which is why they were, you know, prosecuted.

But to extrapolate from this minor clerical case, as Liberty Pundit and its commenters have done, that "when you hear a lib screaming “voter fraud”, it’s the most brazen form of projection there is in politics. As the evidence clearly shows, it is they who are constantly trying to rig the vote... If they’re willing to commit this kind of fraud, they’re certainly more than willing to commit other kinds, as well... when it comes to voter fraud, like all other kinds of corruption, Democrats wrote the book on it... The Democrats have been stealing votes since they invented the process with big Tammany-type machines in the 19th century... The reason Dems want felons to vote—one of Jimmy Carter’s passions—is that felons are almost always Democrats... Democrats do not know how to run an honest election. Look at how Jimmy Carter certified Palestinian elections"—— well, that's just the usual rightwing deflection and persecution tango. And linking to it isn't much saner.

Anonymous said...

Hey, I hate to break it to you, but...er, NO. The intent was to defraud. That's why they were...er, PROSECUTED. The contortions you put yourself through to get your team off the hook - wow. If there were an Olympic team for Twister, you could be the coach.

And by the way? You are a troll. If you don't like that, quit acting so...troll-y.

P.S. - Troll? I borrowed a few ellipses. In know you always have lots on hand, as it's handier for you to Dowdify quotes that way. Hope you don't mind.

Pam Handle said...

I assume that "Dowdify" is one of those hi-larious words you guys make up so that your end of the blogosphere can be even more like a treehouse for children. But since you find ellipses so disagreeable, I'll be sure to copy and paste an entire website for you next time.

Not that you seem to have noticed, but the intent was to defraud ACORN. Otherwise, ACORN would have been prosecuted also, right? It's all there in the Seattle Times article. (But watch out! The article has no "..."s.)

Love how you're sticking with "troll." All you have to do now is claim I'm typing from my parents' basement, and that you have many more important things to do than argue online. You're soooo close to hitting the trifecta of impotent internet squelches.

Eric said...

Really? That's what you're going with: attempted fraud isn't a crime because no votes were cast?

And, to be honest, those guys who slashed tires were just trying to help the Republicans get some exercise. Geez, what's everybody getting so worked up about?

In response, please list all the charges, indictments, and/or convictions for any of the crimes you've imagined, er, listed. The Democratic Underground may not be used as a "news source."

Eric said...

More honest mistakes from ACORN:


Man, they're just a perpetual victim here!

Pam Handle said...

Ha, ha, you're adorable. "The Democratic Underground may not be used as a news source"... but a blogsite branded "observations from the heart of Jesusland" is your battledome of purity?

Unprocessed registration cards are scarier than court-overturned county results. Slashed tires beat scrubbed voter rolls. And I thought conservatives were so rough 'n tough!

I've already acknowledged the legal and ethical wrongness of the voter fraud you link up top. I just observe that it was insignificant numerically, apparently divorced from any effort to cast actual ballots, and was punished. Your side doesn't even concede that past voting anomalies and schemes that've benefited the GOP even HAPPENED.

Thus your "challenge" is a joke. Here's a Rolling Stone article on the 2004 election alone, with over 200 citations.

I'm sure that all 200 of those links are bogus and that not a one rises to the dramatic level of Seattle temps forging quotas. In the past, ACORN has turned in its own employees who were subsequently indicted... but that just shows what a masterful coverup scam they're running.

I'll let a Free Republic poster wrap this one up:
I’m A fan of Michele and I detest Acorn, but calling this voter fraud is a stretch. It was worker fraud of ACORN, which, in a way, I’m all in favor of. Workers pretended to work by filling out voter registration applications so taht ACORN would pay them. If they had done their jobs, more likely DEM voters would have been signed up.

Eric said...

Ha-ha. Robert F. Kennedy? Rolling Stone? Unconfirmed testimonials (you should have seen the roadblocks!) accepted as gospel?

I'll take the Jesusland blog.

Pam Handle said...

Of course you will.

Ha-ha. Robert F. Kennedy? Rolling Stone?

Ho-ho, hee-hee. And the Washington Post. And the New York Times. And the Dept. of Defense. And the Federal Election Commission. And the U.S. Third Circuit Court of Appeals. And the Ohio Secretary of State. And Zogby. And Newsweek. And the International Herald Tribune. And the Associated Press. And the BBC. And the Washington Times. And Fox News. And Dick Morris. 208 citations... but they're LIES! ALL LIES!

I expected nothing else. Paid in full!

Dave said...

Pam, and just how many actual cases were found? Unless something has changed in the past few months, Bugs Bunny -- er, I mean Robert F Kennedy has precisely ZERO actual examples of anyone being prevented from voting in Florida in 2000. ZERO. Nada. Zilch. They couldn't even find anyone who could reasonably bring a case.

Of course, if he really wanted to find some juicy vote fraud, he might go back and check the 1960 presidential election. I'll bet there's someone pretty close to him who could tell him a lot.

Eric said...

Dave, please don't bear-bait. If "Pam" had any real evidence, he/she wouldn't have led with Rolling Stone. The article he cites starts with "the exit polls didn't match up" and gets worse from there.

Fortune favors Diebold said...

Unconfirmed testimonials (you should have seen the roadblocks!) accepted as gospel?

And yet, the poor disenfranchised Republicans of western Florida from 2000 still haunt my dreams... they were so real... I can see their little red tail lights twinkling in the darkness as they pull U-turns at 8:59 p.m. by the tens of thousands...

...and when my nightmares are increased by all the imaginary fraudulent votes that might have been cast in Seattle by Bugs and Mickey if only such incidents existed... or had been attempted... or even contemplated... my God... the horror... the horror...

Joseph P. Kennedy, now THERE'S some "real evidence." said...

I love the presumption that Eric was sitting there, all willing and ready to have his opinion reversed, but the crackpot Rolling Stone article just couldn't get the job done.

"Unconfirmed testimonials" trouble his soul. But testimonials that NO ONE is making, not even prosecutors (the Seattle Acorn workers tried to poison an election), those puppies are air tight!

Eric said...

Oh yeah, you two (?) are the picture of open-mindedness.

Ask yourself this: if the situation had been reversed and some Young Republicans had been convicted of falsifying voter registrations, you'd laugh it off right? Crazy kids!

Eric said...

I can't imagine why I questioned Rolling Stone, that paragon of journalism. I heard it used to be a music magazine.

Late last week, Rolling Stone published an article by Robert Kennedy, Jr. that asks provocatively, "Was the 2004 Election Stolen?" While it covers many topics involving alleged suppression and fraud in Ohio, the article disappoints in its discussion of the exit poll controversy, because on that aspect of the controversy Kennedy manages to dredge up nearly every long-ago discredited distortion or half-truth on this subject without any acknowledgement of contrary arguments or the weaknesses in his argument.

Jann Wenner allowed this? No!


Pam Handle said...

Long reply here, sorry.

Ask yourself this: if the situation had been reversed and some Young Republicans had been convicted of falsifying voter registrations, you'd laugh it off right?

If it was exactly reversed? If it was some piddly-sh*t story about temps cutting corners that resulted in nothing tangible except their guilt being exposed? Yeah, I'd laugh that off too. I honestly would.

Now ask yourself a few questions: why did you approvingly link to a blogger drawing the conclusion that this Seattle case is all about "libs screaming," and their "brazen projection" designed to divert attention from their "constant" illegalities? And how the Democrats are the one and only side that "wrote the book" on cheating, because the Republicans have never "stuff(ed) any ballot boxes."

What about that vapid post made you go, "Yeah, preach it!"? Could it be your professed respect for "real evidence"?

Speaking of reading, why would an alleged weak spot (Rolling Stone's failure to acknowledge contrary exit poll arguments) somehow invalidate the article's litany of other points about suppression, fraud, and coverup? Especially since exit polling is the first, least crucial part of the piece. The exit poll section (#1 of 9) establishes the premise that "something must have gone wrong"; the remaining 90% of the article details what that something was. Didn't read that far?

Why do you fixate exclusively on the opening paragraph of the Mystery Pollster entry, when the second paragraph all but endorses the view that "a series of arbitrary and capricious voting and registration rules...could well have disenfranchised many people in [Ohio]"? Didn't read that far?

Here's a passage buried four pages deep into the Mystery Pollster article:
I share her sense of outrage at real evidence of vote suppression. If nothing else, the long lines that occurred more often in minority precincts in Ohio -- the lines directly attributable to a shortage of voting equipment -- amount to a latter day poll tax that should be an embarrassment to all Americans regardless of their party.
(If you didn't read quite THAT far, though, who could blame you?)

Q: Why do you think "attack the messenger" is a valid tactic here? Where's that demonize-then-ignore spirit when it's Dick Morris touting the glorious record of exit polls? And he's hardcore right: Morris says that exit polls are so consistently accurate, the faulty ones in 2004 must have been deliberately tampered with by the LEFT, for the diabolical purpose of discouraging pro-Bush turnout. (And where are the righty blogs fitting Morris for a tinfoil hat?)

RFK Jr. writes in Rolling Stone about the news networks "scrubbing" their earlier exit poll results to mimic the eventual outcome (a characterization Mystery Pollster also disputes). But didn't Kennedy get the memo that Dan Rather was his fellow conspiracy commando? Why would he sell out his BDS brothers in propaganda like that?

BTW, you're not even attacking the messenger well. Rolling Stone has had a fine journalism reputation for decades, including winning two of the last four National Magazine Awards (the most prestigious honor in the industry) for its Iraq War coverage. Your sarcasm thus reveals the speaker's flaws, rather than the intended target's.



Thanks for sharing the Mystery Pollster link, though... it's genuinely fascinating stuff! It was worth all these posts to get it.

Eric said...

Is there no end to this thread?

This is typical of your thinking: long lines in Democratic, minority districts where the polls are handled by 1) Democrats and 2) minorities = Republican villainy. Why ascribe conspiracy what can be explained by ineptitude?

Robert Kennedy is a kook and Rolling Stone has sucked as a magazine for twenty years.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, yeah, the inept Dems threw Ohio because they weren't prepared for it to be a battleground state. The significance kind of snuck up on them. Also, the Katrina reponse was all Ray Nagin's fault. And Scooter Libby was innocent of a non-crime.

You should auction that "after extensive consideration, it turns out my side is always the winner" skill of yours to the L.A. Clippers. They need you, man, cheering them on!

Thanks for the searching give-and-take. Always remain intellectually open, and never stop fighting those kooks!

Prince Ippi Petitio said...

The lesson here is that fraudulent election practices which benefit Democrats are the fault of Democrats, and that fraudulent election practices which hurt Democrats are ALSO the fault of Democrats.

If this eternal truth makes you skeptical, it's only because you're a typical numbskulled Democrat.

P.S. Democrats.

Anonymous said...

Presented without further comment: